What is a T/C?4. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? hardly noticable. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. This may be the source of your oil confusion. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. James10952001. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. For R12, its mineral oil. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. The AC usually does not work at all. Thanks for the input. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. 5. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. The exact amount will vary with each car. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Helical and Serpentine coils. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. Hence, let us continue to fix it. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. The car never overheats, if that has any import. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. System has been working fine for a year. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. But R22 is almost equally damaging. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. $21 . The money you will save by will pay for the R12. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. That is a good thing. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 Very interesting! I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. It won't be optimal, though. Are you sure you have an R4? If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests "Howdy, Folks!" But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. ambulance tailgate conversion Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. Remember, being aluminum, they lower the temps better, and do not pass off as much heat to the radiator, which then makes it's job easier and lowers underhood temps (besides lowering vent temps inside the car). According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. That's a lot isn't it? But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. I'll put the relay on for that. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. |. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. If not, you just don't know unless a test is performed. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. . R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . Can I just use an adapter and save $200? I have just bought gauges. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. Answer: OK, I'll bite. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. I mean, really a lot. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? Very nice! Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! Can I use the one for the R-12? Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. Blows pretty hard on full. You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. Big . Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. 10,000BTU conduction heating? Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. This can be very very expensive. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe.
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difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve