That got my attention as I was reading the comments yesterday evening. Maybe Driscoll can do commercials like John McEnroe, i am against that sort of ministry, that sort of authority over people, that sort of famousness, that sort of using the gospel of Jesus to make money and become well known in christan circles, that sort of using Jesus name for any personal gain, that sort of i have special insight from God and heres how much you have to pay for it in my new book, that sort of quit saying i have to be asking to be forgiven if i hurt people that sort of we are all brethren but i am alpha brethren i dont hold unforgiveness toward mark driscoll but i am not for anyone anywhere doing that sort of ministry. In case this was not a rhetorical question, the correct answer is entertainment. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. You might be onto something there Sopy. Within a few months most of the members of Mars Hill Church withdrew their support of orphans under our care. @ sam: The introduction sounded like it was coming from a caretaker role. Churches are tax-exempt. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! This is largely shielded from television audiences who only view a heavily edited 22 minute message. I call that tragic because there are still a lot of honest pastors and churches out there. I just do not understand this focus on hoping Christians leaders will actually and finally act like Christians when everything they have been involved with and built looks nothing like Jesus Christ. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. There is no glorifying God in any of that. Dont give into his deception. Im not kidding. he was in glory then entered into human. This captures precisely what I have been sensing as well. Another aspect of the way I approach this is to consider where the burden of proof lies. That does not even mention the eradication of those who did not agree and his cognitive dissonance concerning Hiroshima and working to bring USSR Nuclear missles in Cuba claiming it would be good to use them on Imperialist American. Missouri has not limited attendance at houses of worship but has advised social distancing. Do my eyes deceive me? i dont know what the answer is except to not get under the pastor leader concept ever. Just some thoughts to consider. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? For all the lack of American Idol production values I learned more in that one day of teaching at that little church then I did in all the years I attended Gateway. The James River Church Joplin Campus, located at 1850 S Maiden Ln, Joplin, MO 64801 now has a permanent location! Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. http://www.mercyministries.org/, though she scrubbed some posts referring to her involvement when it was hillsong ministries mercy ministries there are still a few unscrubs left here and there. Thats a great question to think about. now i am going to see if i can stand to listen to the whole mark speaks video. years ago when non denoms were pentecostal and full gospelit seemed they were trying to get back to the Jesus of the bible, the Living Jesus. and that it is ok to debate that point in public. Pun intended. I read your comment and have thought about this a lot. @ sam: It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. An online petition calling for Mr Driscoll to be removed from Hillsong's conferences had attracted more than 3000 signatures prior toMr Houston's statement. This one was different. The worst of all the bad these churches can do (apart from sexual assaults) is brainwashing the kids into their cult beliefs so that they will not accept the true Word of God at a later date. What I saw was the 2 verses that I had typed on a 35 card and tacked to my bulletin board. If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. But guess what else happened? to confer grace through the sacraments. There was another couple along with us who knew a bit more about him and we absolutely amazed that this man, who could have been an elder, could not see through the act which you described so perfectly. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. Based on my experience, this public story should be seen as somewhat inevitable in how they operate. He looked at me kindly and slightly amused and said, thats okay. And then they wonder that people not in their bubble have very little understanding for their version of religion and cry persecution. He further states: A door was closed to who I was and a door was opened to who I became. I can't help but wonder whether Driscoll is talking about Paul or himself. Did that get anywhere close to answering your question? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308 I still dont think he understands the harms he has done. I hope more will speak up in the future. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. But I am surprised he delivered his message from on high the pulpit. Likewise, in house churches sin happens because people will be people. For a number of reasons Texans dont want to say bad things about a church no matter how many people are being hurt. I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. I will never forget the first time I was looking at an org chart of a mega while prepping to facilitate a planning session. Hope youll give us another try and check out some other articles. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. During those early years they had a great impact on hurting people and a great testimony of the work of the Lord in a group of people dedicated to doing whatever He led them to do. At that time, although I led Agathos, I was not taking a salary from Agathos. How can a reasonable person look past that? these were murders not trials. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they havent asked for forgiveness? I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. James River Kids is the children's ministry of James River Church. It was so heretical that even the MH staff saw issues and took it down. I study a lot of the giant DFW megas but most of my data is still filtered through the Gateway lens. i dont have that conscience when i am running off on my own and not caring about serving Jesus, but instead caring about how big my kingdom is or how big an influence i am making or how much press i got this week or how many people got baptized. He was not participating in stonings. Its all good until (insert question or issue). Most of all we want people to know that God loves and cares for them, the church said. Restaurants and bars / taverns also use atmosphere teams. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. if mark is truly repentant than this sermon is him explaining how he persecuted and publicly stoned stephen to death which was actually mark stoning Jesus to death publicly and with no remorse. since we are all clergy??? was paul asking for forgiveness? I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. I dont think it is realistic. Sex abuse inquiry to hear how churches responded to allegations against his father, Frank Houston, and two other men. An IRS spokesman in St. Louis would not comment when asked if a pastor could speak from the pulpit to encourage congregants to vote a particular way on an issue. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. i think they ended up closing them or not being involved in them anymore, there is an american branch of them now though. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. The guests are members and attendees (because many regulars never joined). The carpet was worn. My heart aches for all those whom Mark Driscoll hurt from the Petrys and Meyers to the young and impressionable. Good point as far as it goes. In my opinion Gateway is a cult not a church so they lose their Winters Bone protection status. ), Warren Throckmorton quickly put up a post on this development and featured the following video. The ones leaving arent stupid. I have heard Driscoll in person.. Because 12 years ago Walter Salles made an awesome movie about him called The Motorcycle Diaries starring the gentle heartthrob Gael Garcia Bernal as Che. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. . 15 And all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel. it is so sad it breaks my heart. So Brian Houston lied and succeeded in ending the protests and the media scrutiny temporarily. He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm I have a young friend who was totally enamored with him. So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. Thats how reasonable people see past the wicked. I completely understand why you are so skeptical. To tell, perhaps? @ LT: There are plenty of people within the Christian faith that have their own issues with mega churches but people outside of it especially do. I followed up on the link and have been sharing this song with families and friends! My point with Che is to draw a parallel. But it would be encouraging if they did. (glorifies paul. I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! God,I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire? The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyones eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. He later boasts that he did not immediately go get instruction from the apostles in Jerusalem, but he does not say exactly why. He apparently had many nicknames during the course of his life, but became known by Che. It is not short for chancho.. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. In February 2008, less than two months after his promise not to abandon our orphans, we received a letter from Scott Thomas. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? I felt physically ill when I saw them. Thats exactly what I was thinking last weekend! Same type of focus you describe without the healing stuff. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. Dont forget his church plant was asked to leave my kids school at the time. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. One of six. Of course, the major players seem to emulate and incorporate some of the more questionable practices of each other so in a way we are ending up with a somewhat homogenous giga experience like GW having one of those Guest Central kiosks you mentioned. I was mainly trying to establish there is a difference between lovable Hollywood Che and reality Che. It was never presented to me as something evil just something totally unnecessary and potentially dangerous. I dont think theres been any repentance at all. And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. In case this was not a rhetorical question, After describing the crucifixion of Jesus, Mark Driscoll asks: Who has attacked you? @ Lydia: Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. And of course, the author of Acts is writing more of a historical narrative so we dont get a lot of details. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. On the other hand though a lot of people obviously like the guy enormously and his business model for his church is pretty successful. I fully understand the depression and near paralysis that comes after leaving a cult. ++++++++++++++++++. In your mega travels, Lydia, whats the biggest honorarium from tithe dollars you have been privy to? Also, there is a difference, IMO, between forgiveness and trust restoration. I agree more with you than I would like to. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Just like Jerry Springer would invite the Duggers on his show after the scandal? They didnt fail. I agree with you there, but I wonder, how popular is this hyper macho brand of Christianity anymore? i have seen so much of what you wrote about to know that it is true, a big orchestrated show to fleece sheep and get fame. 2023 www.news-leader.com. . I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. When and where did this start? Given how media savvy Hillsong is (yes, even here in Australia!) I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. Ok, so i am seeing that a lot of people do not like this church. It is the normalization of sociopathy. Blech!! I work with the Online Campus and part of that is getting to be involved in anything Online Campus related. In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). And how many know you cant not everything you read on the internet is true, and so as a church I just I just know this, as a church we want to be careful that we dont ever put ourself in a situation where were shooting the wounded, and you know God has laid Mark and Grace upon Debbie and my heart repeatedly over the last several months. How about when people stone you for your faith? Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. How about the demon trials? To learn more, visit ja. we see this in culture and politics all the time.
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