chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

DS had 2 soft markers: talipes (club foot) and 'echogenic locii' somewhere - heart I think. I think at that time she had come to terms better with the fact that this baby was going to be terminated, and I don't think I was quite there. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. Fine, go on my own. It was the end of January, very end - about the 29th - I'd gone into, I'd gone into 5 months by then. And they, sort of two of them were looking at the scan machine and then they sort of switched everything off and said, 'Oh, I think we have, might have a problem'. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. 12/12/2012 22:41. He sounded like a wild animal in pain, deep pain. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. We saw the consultant, who was reassuring, saying that he would rescan me and was sure everything would be fine. I'm trying to understand because I haven't seen a 3-D scan, what it tells the parents? And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. Just wonder whether anyone had ever been told? Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. Two days, after on Christmas Eve, (my 12 week date) I had more blood tests. . On January 18, my baby was born, at 23 weeks - a little boy. . I was becoming numb to the whole process. Still, the consultant thought things would be OK. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. I wrote a few things down last night when we were trying to go over things, just to remind myself. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. And my husband, we never got to sit next to each other in the consulting room, my husband was across the room from me, and I was sat next to the consultant, and we were laughing and joking with him about, you know, the home delivery, and everything was going to be, 'Are you still on for the home delivery?' Finally, Monday came and we went back to the hospital. Nice people shouldn't hear about what we'd done. I felt the dread run through me. Well, at the regional hospital it was a 3-D scan. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. This short video explains screening for 11 physical conditions in pregnancy. And I'm glad I did and she's glad she didn't. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. After preparing myself to face having to take the medication. Intellectually, I knew this was not the case. The consultant had said it wouldn't be like a normal delivery. [Husband] couldn't make it. I tried to keep positive. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. You've had, you've had your Down's Syndrome check and that's okay. And it's, I can't remember exactly what it was now, it's about where the brain is supposed to form. I feel empty and incomplete. I was another one who did get bad news at the 20 week scan. I felt I needed proof of what was wrong before I take such a huge decision and that I couldn't do it based on what someone had written on, on the paper. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. The decision to terminate the pregnancy was my partner's and mine. There are no known risks to your baby or the mother from having an ultrasound scan but it is important that you consider carefully whether or not to have the 20-week scan. My son's congenital heart defect was detected at the 20 week scan and he had 2 other markers, no . I did think it was a bit strange that she wasn't talking, and then she sort of said, 'Oh, I think there's a problem. This was a ray of hope for us. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. It seemed a very arbitrary system, and so you quite often sat outside in the waiting room for a couple of hours before you actually got to see the consultant, which was, seemed you know, I kind of remember thinking before we went in to see him on the particular day when we found out there was a problem, 'Why are we sitting here? I went away and came back, and she couldn't get a good picture. The pain was excruciating, but nothing compared to how I felt inside. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. And there [sighs] was a very dark patch over one, where the eye socket was, and they didn't know it, in the Edward's babies sometimes the eyes don't develop properly, or it might have been bleeding, they weren't very sure. But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. And before they gave me any of the results she asked a colleague to come and told me she wanted to check something, with a colleague, and by then I was getting very concerned because I'd never had that happen before. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. He had to come to the decision by himself. In some cases concerns in utero fix themselves sometimes needs treatment. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. So had to come back in a week's time for a scan, which again is quite a common thing I found out. Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. And then, so I went to my next scan, which was the 20-week abnormality scan, and we took our first child with us, I think he was 17 months old at the time. The scan can provide information that may mean you have to make further, important decisions. She didn't want to see the baby. I was willing the results to be normal. Later, I did see and hold our baby. The scan yet again confirmed things were not good, however the sac had grown. My wife turned the screen away from her. So, in the end, we said we would arrange our own funeral. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. Again, no notes can have been written down because the midwife asked the same question. So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan. I couldn't work out what was taking so long and put it down to the doctor being young and inexperienced. This publication is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/screening-tests-for-you-and-your-baby/11-physical-conditions-20-week-scan. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. But you could see there was something wrong? I should stop being dramatic and pessimistic. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. We had to discuss what we wanted to do with the little body after delivery. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. We were told to go to the hospital immediately. Our position in our families has shifted. I guess the morphine made it easier. At that point, I got very not upset but quite sort of strongly severe sort of with the people at the hospital saying, 'Look, you know, that's 24 hours, possibly a 48 hours' wait - that's not something that's tenable. 1. However, a few hours later there was another shift change. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. So we went home really and I sort of had to think about it all night. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. But before he could speak, he, too, had broken down. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. But he was not sure. We left for home feeling completely numb. I didn't think my instincts were worth much. I was then told yet again bad news. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". Went off for the 20-week scan, which you didn't, you weren't there, were you, for the first scan? Being deeply unhappy and kind to others at the same time is nigh on impossible. Last reviewed July 2017. We'd just spent some time away on a, on a summer holiday and come back expecting to have this scan and be told, 'All fine. That they could have spotted something, or not? I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. I think it's the same - in fact I think it was probably the same room, same consultant - and [sighs] I suppose it felt upsetting because at the dating scan you're full of hope and this scan we knew wasn't going to be good, we knew it was maybe the last time we would see the baby moving around. I had hope that the little bumps inside me were fighting just as much as I was to stay with me. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. The doctor explained the options I had to manage my miscarriage. 13/12/2020 20:45. He then told us what the prognosis would mean for the child. If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. And that was Monday afternoon. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. Many described how sonographers and doctors were very restrained and didn't speak at all until they had analysed all the baby's details. And nothing prepares you at all. I've been incredibly lucky to have such amazing support from Sam, my mum, and close friends and family. But everything seemed fine and we'd been sitting waiting to see the consultant, and I'd had an examination on the bed. But other than that everything was fine. Smiling at myself and picturing me and Sam becoming parents. Those two weeks were agonising for us both. Saturday came. Anyway we went in for the meeting with the consultant on this particular time, and we'd got to, I was 30 weeks pregnant by then. I could hardly breathe. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. To help us improve GOV.UK, wed like to know more about your visit today. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. It was positive, and I felt elated. Just that really! The week that followed was an agonising wait. Back on the EPU unit, a doctor organised for me to be admitted into the ward, to take the medical management under supervision as the sac was now to big for me to safely miscarry on my own at home. Some of the conditions that can be seen on the scan will mean the baby may need treatment or surgery after it is born, for example cleft lip. Read full disclaimer. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. We, I was with my mum, and they scanned and found choroid plexus cysts on the brain, which is just a mark, it's a marker on the brain, it's a, what they call a 'soft marker'. We're still not at the end of our journey, but we're much further along. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. I faced another internal scan where I began to feel helpless and alone. So he went out for a walk. This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. And I could see, before she even said anything I could see that there was something wrong with the heart. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. or sort of light chat that we'd, we'd experienced before with previous scans. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. I was sat on the sofa working, my son was at nursery and my partner was in the bath. I believed at this point I had miscarried, they wanted me to come back I'm for a follow up scan. We talked all night and thanked God for crap television. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. Let a mum know you're thinking of them send one of our personalised Mother's Day cards today, Home The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. The ultimate betrayal. It feels very lonely and isolating. We felt as if we were in limbo. A black and white picture of your baby will then be seen on the ultrasound screen. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). We were convinced everything would be OK. Instead, I had to raise a glass of water to my mouth, take a swig and swallow the tablet. It will take only 2 minutes to fill in. Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. It was real. The same sense of expectation. Some of the other conditions, such as heart defects, are more difficult to see. I was sent home with a leaflet, strong painkillers and two types of antibiotics. I have horrible thoughts. And I said, I was still laughing, and I thought he was joking with me, and he said now I sort of could tell from his face that by that point he wasn't really joking anymore. I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. Life expectancy of 30 or 40. He was tiny, perfect and a Down's syndrome baby. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. I had to be rescanned latter. It was, 'Oh we'll come back to that'. I wasn't unduly worried at all. I am a darker, harder version of myself. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. See you in -. Surely he couldn't have missed anything else that is so serious x. Looked exactly like our two year old as a baby. I don't know how we got through the next couple of days. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. That's fine. The pain was bearable but uncomfortable, the hospital rang me a few days later and asked me how I was. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. So I took the test and jumped in the shower. She just said, 'It's a bit short, it needs to be checked' again basically. While some parents understood the clinician's restraint - even when they had to wait an hour or more for a definite diagnosis - others disliked being kept in suspense and wanted to be told what the clinician was thinking. Last updated July 2017. The consultant at the time wasn't really that interested in that imagery. But he was wrong. Being generous and kind generally happens only when you're happy. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. But with time although we will never forget, I know we will be ok again. I want to enjoy my son again, without any reservations. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. Baby loss support And I, my husband and I both ran our own business at the time so we were desperate to get back and do some work, and things were going really well, so.. 'Soft markers'. By this point I had stopped bleeding, this caused problems. My heart goes out to you OP. So it was quite common, this is what happens. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. So we went back the day after Boxing Day, the 27th, and the consultant greeted us, which made my alarm bells go, and she started scanning us and I think her lines were, 'What concerns me about this baby is that they've got a diaphragmatic hernia, which has meant that part of the stomach of the baby was in its chest cavity.'. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. The sonographer then passes a hand-held probe over your skin to examine the babys body. So I no longer trusted my instincts. Within two days I was waiting in my local EPU unit for further tests. Slightly marked from our peers. I was then told yet again bad news. Several parents said they would have preferred being told something, even it was vague. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . So I was a bit ignorant of the kind of things, you know, what the scans were really doing - maybe it was, a bit na've I think. After the triple test you stop thinking, you stop thinking that anything can go wrong. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? This one cannot show you anything, that's what's inside your mind. I was told they needed to do a blood test to get a bench mark of my hormone levels. Not a good sign in a hospital consulting room. The weeks since that day have been very weird. We walked all the way home. Please ask your hospital about this before your appointment. The results come in stages. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. But my brain had been given a train of thought that was impossible to stop. He felt doing more blood tests would only cause me more discomfort and false hope. This might be uncomfortable. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). We're going to go and see them. I want to stop having such horrible thoughts. ABDOMINAL CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT AT 20 WEEK SCAN. I had a horrible feeling of relief. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. I agreed to an internal scan as the sonographer said we could get a better picture of what was happening. I swallowed the tablet and we left the building. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. There, I would give birth. So I lay on the bed and my partner sat next to me. Registered office: Nicholas House, 3 Laurence Pountney Hill, London, EC4R 0BB. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. Try to relax and take it easy. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor, midwife or hospital immediately. In order for the sonographer to get good images of your baby, the scan is carried out in a dimly lit room. We had so much power, we could decide that this little thing should die. And they took me into another room. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. It's quite common, perhaps 1 in 10 they find these, and within a few weeks they disappear. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. The anomaly scan, also called the 20 week scan or mid-pregnancy scan, is used to detect pregnancy irregularities significant in diagnosis of any of the following conditions: In most instances no serious issue will be found during the scan and many parents-to be will come away knowing that all is progressing nicely and, perhaps, having found out . It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. It is essential that all practitioners performing fetal anomaly ultrasound screening should be trained to communicate abnormal findings to women, as such information is likely to have significant emotional impact. Forcing my hand to my mouth to take the tablet was probably the hardest thing I have ever done. If an abnormality is confirmed or suspected, referral is usually required, although some obvious major fetal abnormalities, such as anencephaly, may not require a second opinion (this should be decided by local guidelines). Tears started to roll down my face. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see '. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. I wanted to be a passive patient while the doctor did what he had to do. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. The consultant explained that this was just very bad luck and not, as far as they knew, genetic. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. I give obsessively to charity, especially those linked to sick children. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. And I felt like a murderer. 17/12/2020 17:13. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. And that was a terrible moment to be sort of hanging on, waiting. Tommys is a registered charity in England and Wales (1060508) and Scotland (SC039280). And as soon as she said those words, both of us were like, 'Well what's wrong?'. For once in my life, I had been organised. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. Check benefits and financial support you can get, Find out about the Energy Bills Support Scheme, NHS fetal anomaly screening programme (FASP), Screening tests for you and your baby (STFYAYB), nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3, more information and details of support groups. 26/09/2019 22:46. I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. We didn't name him. He wanted to talk about it, but I didn't. I want to be nice again. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. I returned to be told they wanted to scan me again, another internal to see exactly what was happening. You know there's always that bit on the bottom of the thing, 'These are diagnostics, do not bring other children,' - blah, blah, blah.. it's not, you know, it's not a family outing kind of thing, but it feels like it. I was young, I didn't need one. I used to think the feeling of your baby kicking inside you and the sight of a foot poking against your skin were the most fantastic things in the world. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal.

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