brent metcalfe excommunicated

[5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. January 15, 2015. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Brent Metcalf. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Metcalfe (ed. Heres a link to the Deseret News write up on the presentation: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. How have things changed over the decades? Vol. Rude Dog Never fear! Please let us know. I have some insights into that. Thanks again Brent! Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? Elbert was the managing editor, and Ron the financial guy, so I had the impression that Elbert created the whole thing. Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. Be the first to contribute! Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. Arent we to try to gain understanding about life and spirituality? hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? So sorry for the delay!!!! If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? This is definitely a not-miss interview. The message was discovered after his review had gone to press and had to be edited out. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (Podcast Episode 2014) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more. It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. All rights reserved. It seems there is some serious self deception that is required to work around these problems that are creating riffs in families, as well as individual conflicts of spiritual dissonance for good members and leaders of the church. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Looking forward to the interview! Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. Quote: More recent studies conducted by Professor of Anthropology Richard B. Stamps, of the Michigan Historical Museum, indicate that the artifacts were made with contemporary tools. D&C 76:2021). Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. He remains an enigma. They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. The Book of Abraham? It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. John, you asked for information about any of the Christensens. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. That makes more sense. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. Very cool, any personal stories youd like to share? The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). This was interesting all around. brent metcalfe excommunicated. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. I found this podcast to be very fascinating. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. Truth or legend? It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. Brents words deepened my own thoughts on God, spiritually and humanity. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. This is a rumor I heard. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). Published by on October 31, 2021. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. Yes! And great questions John. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Honestly, incredible work. had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. Brents work is groundbreaking and reliably fascinating. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! This one is up there with the best. Phooey to that. going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. Thats not necessarily a problem, of course. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. Should have added one more minor thing. On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. Sincerely, Terry. Great interview. In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. This is what led me here! Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. These scholars included Dan Vogel, Stan Larson, David P. Wright, and John Kunich. Ive struggled to understand the human mind in this regard. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. 497: Brent Metcalfe Part 3 -- After the Hofmann bombings and his excommunication (2014 Podcast Episode) Plot Showing all 0 items Jump to: Summaries It looks like we don't have any Plot Summaries for this title yet. The gift of your ADHD shines. I have that info direct from Mac himself. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. I had no idea what your beliefs were and it piqued my interest in part 1 where you talked about scripture being inspirational yet often times not historical. Im sure this applies to other beliefs as well. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? brent metcalfe excommunicated. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. In Gnosticism Abraham is not even a real person, the story represents the triumph of spirit over matter and is loaded with hidden symbolic meaning. Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. This was an awesome interview. I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. And theres no way that you can change it. It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. Brent, All things praised God with me. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. I am quite sure, that film is no longer shown. Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmanns victims. In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? The 7th East Press was a gem. Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. Thanks for the interview both of you. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. Signature Books.

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